PoM Dojo

Steam-punk fantasy 'skirmish' igra z 28 mm modeli in večjimi roboti / zvermi namesto tankov :)

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J_S
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PoM Dojo

Post by J_S » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:16 am

So for reasons of practicality (the best reasons), I have ended up with one of the worst factions in WM: Bandaid at first glances. #yolo

My choice of lists was based on 3 important factors:
1) Low model count - because I don't like playing lots of infantry. One unit max per list is likely the most I can go without tilting.
2) Sweet casters - I want to play guys in full plate and don't die to stiff breezes/my incompetence
3) Stan's model pool - since I am borrowing everything, lists have to use those models. Additionally, I have to try to get my lists sorted as soon as possible to allow for Mr Kovacic to paint!


PoM seems to be about 3 things in WM: Reposition
1) Spell denial - the only faction with Purification, upkeep hate, dispels everywhere
2) Fire - fire freaking everywhere
3) Death effects - between souls, vengeance, battle driven and the like, PoM gets stronger as you kill it

-----------------------------------------
List 1 - Purification

General idea with this list is to provide matchup tools for Baffo by scaring away a good number of casters that rely on upkeeps and lists that rely on animi. Kreoss doubles this by also having Lamentation, which is quite a bit better in WM: Reposition.

Kreoss1
The old reliable workhorse, Kreoss1 is overall buffed from his Mk2 incarnation.
There does not appear to be a lot of Steady auras in the game either at present, probably as an attempt to keep the cancer of Tough under control (address the symptoms, not the cause - classic PP). There are however a lot more steady models (jacks/solos).

+ PURIFICATION - one of two models with this super FU-to-upkeeps/animi spell
+ Defender's Ward - best defensive buff in the game and makes Errants playable
+ Lamentation - now that it affects animi AND increases upkeeps if the target of the spell is in Kreoss' control (rather than the caster), this spell says "keep away"
+ KD feat - good for ranged combat

- No DMG buff

Good against: Most Hordes list that use animi, upkeep heavy casters, squishy frontline casters without Steady, infantry (dual Redeemer baby!)
Weak against: High ARM (Khador, some Troll lists), deathclocks if lots of infantry


CURRENT LIST: 23 June -
  • (Kreoss 1) High Exemplar Kreoss [+29]
    - Crusader [10]
    - Reckoner [16]
    - Redeemer [11]
    - Redeemer [11]
    Avatar of Menoth [20]
    Temple Flameguard (max) [11]
    - Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard [4]
    Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9]
    Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4]
    Choir of Menoth (max) [6]
    Wrack [1]
    Vassal Mechanik [1]

---------------------------------

List 2 - ????????


I was originally sticking with Ignite casters, but have broadened a bit. General idea with this list is to provide enough hard hitting to deal with ARM heavy lists while still leveraging one of the 3 PoM advantages (anti magic/fire/death effects).

Went with all tanky casters because it's both the most fun and the least likely to get killed by my incompetence.

  • (Durst 1) Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith [+28]
    - Fire of Salvation [16]
    - Reckoner [16]
    - Reckoner [16]
    - Devout [9]
    - Vigilant [9]
    Choir of Menoth (max) [6]
    The Covenant of Menoth [4]
    Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4]
    Vassal Mechanik [1]
    Vassal Mechanik [1]
    Wrack [1]

    TFG+ UA + Pyrrhus or Nycea [11+4+5]
This list is alright vs Hordes due to DEF 14 heavies with decent ARM. Also can hit pretty hard. Suffers from lack of good anti-infantry.

Here's a version with a Vanquisher for a little more AoE presence.

(Durst 1) Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith [+28]
- Reckoner [16]
- Reckoner [16]
- Devout [9]
- Vigilant [9]
- Vanquisher [17]
Choir of Menoth (max) [6]
Temple Flameguard (max) [11]
- Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard [4]
The Covenant of Menoth [4]
Pyrrhus, Flameguard Hero [5]
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4]
Vassal Mechanik [1]
Vassal Mechanik [1]



  • (Reznik 1) High Executioner Servath Reznik [+28]
    - Vanquisher [17]
    - Vanquisher [17]
    - Fire of Salvation [16]
    - Guardian [15]
    - Devout [9]
    Temple Flameguard (max) [11]
    - Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard [4]
    Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
    Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
    Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4]
    Wrack [1]
    Wrack [1]
Played this list once into Irusk2 (horribly bad matchup). It's ok, I can tolerate it. So freaking slow though.
[/size]
  • (Feora 2) Feora, Protector of the Flame [+28]
    - Judicator [36]
    - Hand of Judgment [18]
    - Vanquisher [17]
    Temple Flameguard (max) [11]
    - Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard [4]
    Choir of Menoth (max) [6]
    Pyrrhus, Flameguard Hero [5]
    Vassal of Menoth [3]
    Wrack [1]
    Vassal Mechanik [1]
    Vassal Mechanik [1]

  • (Kreoss 3) Intercessor Kreoss [+28]
    - Judicator [36]
    - Guardian [15]
    Exemplar Vengers (max) [20]
    Flame Bringers (max) [17]
    Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
    High Exemplar Gravus [9]
    Wrack [1]
    Wrack [1]
Last edited by J_S on Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:34 am, edited 6 times in total.

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J_S
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Re: PoM Dojo

Post by J_S » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:52 pm

I played the Kreoss1 list into a pretty bad matchup (Irusk1) tonight. Here are my lessons:

1 - Mk3years is still Warmachine. New meta, exactly the same experience.
2 - I need to lower model count, my brain is exploding with all the admin and models.
3 - Errants are not good in general. The Self Sac is nice for zone holding I guess, but 0.5" melee isn't great. The Errant's Unyielding saved them a few times but in most cases it's not going to be worth it - 4pts better spent elsewhere.
4 - Still hate Colossals.
5 - 8 months of no playing shows. Gotta start grinding reps.
6 - Redeemers are very good but chew your clock. Only reason the game was close was because I got some lucky deviations mid game that freed up zones - if you throw enough out there though, you'll get it.

I'll have a look at running less models and revamping the Kreoss list a little. He felt like a really strong caster without basically doing anything.

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J_S
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Re: PoM Dojo

Post by J_S » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:46 pm

(Kreoss 1) High Exemplar Kreoss [+29]
- Reckoner [16]
- Hierophant [3]
- Guardian [15]
Avatar of Menoth [20]
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9]
Wrack [1]
Wrack [1]
Vassal Mechanik [1]
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Initiate Tristan Durant [4]
- Redeemer [11]
- Redeemer [11]

--------------------

(Kreoss 1) High Exemplar Kreoss [+29]
- Judicator [36]
- Redeemer [11]
- Reckoner [16]
- Hierophant [3]
Choir of Menoth (max) [6]
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9]
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios [7]
Exemplar Cinerators/Bastions (max) [16]

--------------------------------------

(Reznik 1) High Executioner Servath Reznik [+28]
- Vigilant [9]
- Hierophant [3]
- Judicator [36]
- Guardian [15]
Avatar of Menoth [20]
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance [5]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Wrack [1]
The Covenant of Menoth [4]
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4]
Vassal Mechanik [1]
Wrack [1]

----------------------------------------

(Kreoss 3) Intercessor Kreoss [+28]
- Judicator [36]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
Exemplar Vengers (max) [20]
Flame Bringers (max) [17]
High Exemplar Gravus [9]
Wrack [1]

------

All the solos

(Harbinger 1) The Harbinger of Menoth [+24]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Vigilant [9]
- Hierophant [3]
- Devout [9]
High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [6]
Knights Exemplar Seneschal [5]
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance [5]
Paladin of the Order of the Wall [4]
Paladin of the Order of the Wall [4]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Knights Exemplar [9]
Holy Zealots (max) [13]
- Monolith Bearer [3]
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4]
Wrack [1]




Going to try something like these next. Lowering model counts and all that. If I can stomach playing a Colossal it should be ok. Otherwise we will try replacing it with a few other jacks.

S'tan
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Re: PoM Dojo

Post by S'tan » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:58 am

1. Why Rhupert in 1st pKreoss list and why Rhoven? You have no proper units and already have Purification. Just to remove stealth?

2. Not sure I like Judi with pReznik. More Reckoners and Vanquishers, hell Repenters even.

3. Was about to poo poo on Judi here as well but since he lost Warpath...looks like a cool list.

4. Rhoven would be really good in this list but please don't play Harby. :D

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J_S
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Re: PoM Dojo

Post by J_S » Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:58 am

Your criticisms are probably justified.

Rhupert gives pathfinder to jacks and stuff. Rhoven gives Eyeless Sight to the Reckoner (which removes Stealth) and also brings two Shield Guards. Cleansing Fire is also ok. It's basically a jank list. Bastions are total shit after the boxes nerf on top of other nerfs, so I'll probably just go Cinerators. Then not play that list.

I was thinking Judicator because it's a good weapon to take Witch Hound shots with, but it does cost a lot and doesn't have great synergy. Maybe 2 Vanqs and some other stuff, see how it goes.

Kreoss3 losing Warpath kinda makes me sad.
The idea is mostly to have the Judicator go up first and die, then counter charge with Kreoss, Errants, other jacks. Menoth threat range in general is pretty poor after their accurate ranged game was decimated, so you have to counter charge I think. Hopefully you hit hard enough then and have enough ARM to survive counter attacks.

I probably won't play Harby. I just wanted to write a list with lots of solos. It'd probably be terrible because SR 2016 will probably be "run to the middle of the board!!!11!!" all over again and there is no decent jam in that list.

-----------------------------------

Remake of the the above. 18 models, seems tolerable.

(Reznik 1) High Executioner Servath Reznik [+28]
- Vigilant [9]
- Guardian [15]
- Vanquisher [17]
- Vanquisher [17]
- Repenter [8]
Avatar of Menoth [20]
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance [5]
Vassal of Menoth [3]
Wrack [1]
Wrack [1]
Vassal Mechanik [1]
Choir of Menoth (max) [6]


And I'll go with this Kreoss list for next game, seems ok at 19 models too. It's a lot more than 6 but if I'm not going to play Cthulhu Angel, what can a man do:


(Kreoss 1) High Exemplar Kreoss [+29]
- Vigilant [9]
- Guardian [15]
- Reckoner [16]
- Redeemer [11]
- Redeemer [11]
Avatar of Menoth [20]
Choir of Menoth (max) [6]
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9]
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4]
Wrack [1]
Wrack [1]
Vassal Mechanik [1]



OR if I can stomach playing units, this list might be better, despite lack of Hierophant:

Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 (+29) points

(Kreoss 1) High Exemplar Kreoss [+29]
- Crusader [10]
- Reckoner [16]
- Redeemer [11]
- Redeemer [11]
Temple Flameguard (max) [11]
- Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard [4]
Avatar of Menoth [20]
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9]
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4]
Choir of Menoth (max) [6]
Wrack [1]
Vassal Mechanik [1]
Last edited by J_S on Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

maxvonlaibach
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Re: PoM Dojo

Post by maxvonlaibach » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:27 pm

Why the guardian? He's not changed significantly compared to Mk. II, is a terrible arc node, and doesn't really project force anywhere. With Kreoss it feels like you'd be much better off with another ranged warjack.

With Reznik, I have one word for you: Dervish. He's got the longest perdition threat range, is super cool and he knows kung-fu. In my pReznik list I'd run one alongside a Sanctifier or Reckoner (also long threat btw. If you're looking to save points, apparently Castigators are ok-ish now.) in 35 pts. games, and that was before he was good.
That, or you can get a sanctifier with a unit of TFG. Works ok, and Reznik is still strapped for focus.

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J_S
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Re: PoM Dojo

Post by J_S » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:07 pm

Guardian is MAT 7, P+S 18 (hardest hitter in the faction outside Judicator, tied with Crusader) and 15PC, same as a Templar.

EDIT - Just realized I answered for the wrong list. The Guardian is a generally good jack - I was thinking the arc node is there to get Defender's Ward back up somewhere if I purify, and also maybe throw out a spell if I have spare focus (happens when you don't purify, since Kreoss doesn't do much else).

I had units in my original list but after playing a game on Monday, I will committ seppuku if I have to play a 10 man unit again. So I just took out TFG.

Stan has no dervishes, nor Castigators. Warmachine: Pay to Win. Ideally, my two lists would be something like (without thinking too hard):


(Amon 1) High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza [+29]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Dervish [7]
- Dervish [7]
- Dervish [7]
- Dervish [7]
- Dervish [7]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Wrack [1]


(High Reclaimer 2) Testament of Menoth [+27]
- Blood of Martyrs [16]
- Fire of Salvation [16]
- Redeemer [11]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Knights Exemplar [9]
Knights Exemplar [9]
Knights Exemplar [9]
Knights Exemplar [9]
Knights Exemplar Seneschal [5]
Knights Exemplar Seneschal [5]
High Exemplar Gravus [9]
Last edited by J_S on Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Baffo
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Re: PoM Dojo

Post by Baffo » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:27 pm

So, in the Amon list, all his crusaders can get to P+S 23 between Choir and +3 Synergy?
Why are Crusaders 10 again?
Imo you probably should switch in at least 1 Vigilant (maybe 2) just to give Amon moving Cover and maybe start the synergy chain with 'worthless attacks'.
That said, does anyone in our team have a plan/list that can take on that many jacks, that can't be shot or spelled, with Mobility?

I know my Harkevich 'jack spam' can't really harm the jack unless the opponent totally derps and doesn't sing Hymn of Passage every turn until we're in charge range of each other (or he camps the scenarios without contention, because I can't trade positively with this list - he has 11 jacks, 6 of witch are heavies, and even if I tried to go the same rout with 12+ Mad dogs they are crap Vs other heavies:P)

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J_S
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Re: PoM Dojo

Post by J_S » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:32 pm

I hadn't thought about the list that much because the models aren't available. It was just an example of what I'd play if we were rich, and not in a world where just buying the rules on a bad app costs more than an entire Guild Ball team.
Although someone at the WTC will almost certainly be playing it, and it would get wrecked by my second (100%) hypothetical list of weapon master swarm :P

Here is the model pool btw:
  • pSevvy
    eSevvy
    Harby (in pieces)
    pKreoss
    Kreoss3
    pFeora
    eFeora
    Reznik1
    Hierophant

    Devout
    Redeemer or two
    5 or 6 Repenters
    Vigilant
    Revenger
    Blessing of Vengeance

    2x Crusaders (one can be a Templar)
    Guardian
    2x Reckoners
    1x Reckoner/Sanctifier
    2x Vanquishers
    Avatar
    Fire of Salvation
    Judicator

    2x min 1x max Choir
    Cinerators
    2x full Errants & UAs
    Zealots & UA
    Vengers
    Flame Bringers
    min Cleansers
    Knights Exemplar
    TFG + UA
    Rhoven & CO

    2x Errant Seneschals
    Exemplar Seneschal
    2x Paladins
    Reclaimer
    2x Vassals
    Vassal mech
    Wracks
    Covenant
    Gravus
    Nicia
    Vilmon
    Tristan

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J_S
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Re: PoM Dojo

Post by J_S » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:34 am

One of our locals lent me his PoM stuff to practice with over the next few months. It's mostly the same stuff as Stan but he does have a couple of models not there.

One of these is Durst. I was thinking an ARM stack grinder list for my second list to pair with Kreoss1. It's nothing really brilliant, just annoying to chew through in almost any matchup, especially since nobody uses throws anymore.

(Durst 1) Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith [+28]
- Fire of Salvation/Reckoner [16]
- Templar [15]
- Devout [9]
- Vigilant [9]
Exemplar Cinerators (max) [16] (can't think of any better infantry for this, also screens Durst)
Avatar of Menoth [20]
Vassal of Menoth [3]
Vassal of Menoth [3]
Wrack [1]
Wrack [1]
The Covenant of Menoth [4]
Choir of Menoth (max) [6]


Foolish?

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